Blocking IE7
It amuses me that there are so many articles around the traps on how to block the imminent release of Internet Explorer 7 from being automatically deployed onto PCs on your network.
A more secure, easier to use, more standards-compliant version of IE? Oh my god! We can't let that onto our PCs! How dare they try to force that upon us?!!!
Comments
# Formerly Hopeful About IE7
12/10/2006 1:17 AM
I don't usually comment, but here goes... I really tried to use IE7. For two weeks, it was the only browser I used. I'm afraid that I will not be leaving Firefox for IE7. If the release version of IE7 is anything like the rc version, all that stuff that you mentioned will be irrelevant. The redone interface is atrocious. Aside from being plain ugly, it is very confusing. Here is a list of things I found that made it unuseable for me:
Buttons that sometimes behave like buttons, but behave like drop-down menus other times.
Toolbar menus (specifically what they call command bar)is in a very strange location; and worse, you can't move them to where you would like them.
I hate the fact that they split the forward/back, home, refresh and cancel buttons up into 3 different locations. I use 4 of those 5 buttons constantly, and I found it extremely annoying to have to go searching all over the screen to get to them. In my opinion, they really should be grouped together like they traditionally are.
You have to click on the "Add to Favorites" button to get a drop down menu to select the "Import/Export" menu item in order to do either of those actions. It took me 30 minutes to figure out how to import my bookmarks into IE7.
Back to behaviour, why does the "Favorites" button open a panel, but the "Add to Favorites" button open a menu???? Come on. How about some consistency.
As for the looks, to me, it's as if they tried to mate OSX with Windows 95 and throw in a little Firefox while they were at it. The whole interface just looks thrown together.
Another thing I found annoying is that the browser STILL doesn't render all pages correctly. It's much better about it, but still lacking.
It's not all bad, though. I found 2 things that I really liked. The QuickTabs feature is pretty cool. I also like the fact that it renders most web pages using the clear type fonts. It also looks like they are doing *something* with the images and colors on pages. I browsed many different pages, and most all of them look much better(i.e. prettier) when view in IE7 vs. IE6/Firefox.
$0.02
# mabster
12/10/2006 8:20 AM
I can't argue with your points. Not because I agree with them, but because most of them are subjective, and if you don't like the UI then that's your prerogative.
I've found that I got used to it pretty quickly, and that IE6 looks quite old-fashioned now when I see it running on someone else's PC.
Regardless of the UI, though, I think you'd have to concede that even if your users all have Firefox as their default browser, IE's rendering engine is still in use in many applications. It simply doesn't make sense to block the update from a security and standards-compliance perspective.
#
12/10/2006 10:33 AM
I don't mind it either but the point about the forward/back buttons and stop refresh i think is about the only issue i have.
There is some site compatibility with certificates and things like that but it's just a matter of hitting "continue"
Hairy
# Andrew Tobin
12/10/2006 11:34 AM
Okay, just to rebuttle your points :)
* "The redone interface is atrocious. Aside from being plain ugly, it is very confusing."
I actually find it fairly sleek - everything is at the top, and I have my most common links along the top as a link bar.
I also like that favorites are towards the right, where I go quickly to start a new tab, and functions I use less often are to the right.
I barely ever use the address bar so that's out of the way as well.
* "Buttons that sometimes behave like buttons, but behave like drop-down menus other times."
I think you may have to get used to this, because I think Microsoft will release many programs like this in the future and we'll all copy suit.
It makes sense again, because the most commonly used function IS the button... and anything else you could do with that function is a drop-down option.
It's very intuitive and makes great use of space.
It also shows a deliniator when you hover over the button as to which clickable part is the button and which is the drop down.
I don't see what is confusing there.
* "Toolbar menus (specifically what they call command bar)is in a very strange location; and worse, you can't move them to where you would like them."
Meh, why would you need to?
I don't think they're in a strange location - its not like you would want to move the tabbed bar to the top, and search is in the upper right as standard... again, all pretty much where I would put for usability.
* "I hate the fact that they split the forward/back, home, refresh and cancel buttons up into 3 different locations. I use 4 of those 5 buttons constantly, and I found it extremely annoying to have to go searching all over the screen to get to them. In my opinion, they really should be grouped together like they traditionally are."
Okay, so forward and back are before the address bar denoting that they affect the status of that bar... and refresh and cancel are to the right denoting that they affect that address... I don't see why thats a problem.
Heres a shortcut for you:
ctrl-left arrow = back
ctrl-right arrow = forward
ctrl-r or F5 = refresh
and I believe Esc = stop.
Those buttons are more for newbies who don't know how to use short cuts :)
* "You have to click on the "Add to Favorites" button to get a drop down menu to select the "Import/Export" menu item in order to do either of those actions. It took me 30 minutes to figure out how to import my bookmarks into IE7."
Where else would it be? You want to Import into your favorites/RSS/etc? Import = Add.
The RSS is under the favorites star, the functions that affect it are under the + Star, makes sense.
You could have always hit Alt to get the File menu and then choose Import from there. Not that difficult.
* "Back to behaviour, why does the "Favorites" button open a panel, but the "Add to Favorites" button open a menu???? Come on. How about some consistency."
Because your list of favorites isnt a menu, and if you want to open up a few favorites, or god forbid read through your RSS feeds it's easier to have it docked in a panel, whereas if you're adding to your favorites you are generally doing one thing don't need to leave it open all day?
Yeah... that arguement makes no sense.
* "As for the looks, to me, it's as if they tried to mate OSX with Windows 95 and throw in a little Firefox while they were at it. The whole interface just looks thrown together."
Woo! Go Vista!
* "Another thing I found annoying is that the browser STILL doesn't
# Andrew Tobin
12/10/2006 11:35 AM
*sigh* when will I learn?
alt-left = back
alt-right = forward
It's more of an automatic thing and I lost myself when actually having to "think" about it.
# Formerly Hopeful About IE7
13/10/2006 12:10 AM
Crucible,
I believe that some of our conflicting points rest on our personal usage habits. When browsing, I almost never use the keyboard. I interact with the browser using the mouse. The exception is navigation. I use the address bar almost always, unless I'm clicking on a link in a document; and I almost never use the forward and back buttons.
However, most of the points I made a based on common useability rules. 2 of the biggest rules of useablitiy are that behavior should be consistent, and that the behavior of objects on the screen should be consistent with their real world counterparts. (excuse me for not being able to use the actual terms for these things. It's early in the morning and I haven't had my Mt. Dew yet.)
The button issue that I have is that a button should behave like a button. *Most* people expect some action to happen when they push a button, or they expect the button to stay depressed; toggling some feature. As an example, the "Add to Favorites" button: I expect it to add the current page to my favorites list when I click on it. It doesn't do that. Several of the buttons in IE7 do not behave that way. And, what's worse is that even their " "non-standard" behavior is not the same. Some of them drop down menus, while others open panels. This kind of inconsistent behavior is very confusing to most people. I am one of those people.
My other main issues is with the breaking up of the "traditional" groups of buttons. I understand why they did it, but I don't agree with the choice. There have been tons of studies about people's usage of browsers and the web. It is a fact that most people spend the majority of their time (and the mouse hovers most) in the upper left corner of the browser. Thus, all the most commonly used features should be located in that area for ease of use. By breaking up these commonly used features, it forces the user to constantly scan left to right to left at the top of the browser and waving the mouse back and forth like a craze wizard's magic wand.
The other point I made about the command bar is simple. Toolbar menus have been completely modbile in every application I've used since who know's when. It's a common thing. Why is the command bar nailed where it is? Why can I use the "grabber" to squish or expand it, but I can't put it where I'd use it?
Anyways, I see your points, and I'm glad that they work for you. These things are just total show-stoppers with me. They interfere with the way I work enough that they are the reason's why I will not use this product.
If it's any consolation, I'm not too happy with the way Firefox is heading either. :)
# Andrew Tobin
13/10/2006 7:15 AM
FHIE7,
Yeah I agree that it may be about the way we use IE, but I really think that if you got used to using the keyboard more (which is the best way to use any program) that you'd be more comfortable with it.
All the same, I there were a couple of points I wanted to talk with you about, in what you said:
* " It is a fact that most people spend the majority of their time (and the mouse hovers most) in the upper left corner of the browser."
Completely agree. This is why they're reworking the toolbar in Office for exactly the same reason.
And if you're looking in IE7 with what is to the far left of the toolbar you have (down the page): Forward and Back buttons along with the start of the Address bar, the first (and most important/used if you arranged them correctly) links (if you turn them on in your toolbar), your favorites alongside adding to favorites and first tabs.
That seems to be the most important things.
The things that you would use more often.
I would use all those things way more often than I would refresh any page, stop any page, add things to my RSS (you do that every so often to begin but from then on it becomes less common), and printing, etc.
I know you said you'd be scanning back and forth a lot... but I'd really question how often you'd really be doing that.
There's only two cases that I could see that being possible.
1) Because they put the search where it commonly is in programs (top-right) it's exactly the opposite of where every other important element is... doesn't make much sense, except that has become a standard for search... and scanning your mouse to the top right isn't that difficult.
2) Because you're scanning across to the scroll bar to scroll down a page.
Obviously if you click links on a page as well.
If you're scrolling then may I suggest the down and up arrows, or the spacebar will scroll you an entire page length.
Again I really believe that your point there is valid, but I also believe that the things you would use most Are in the top-left.
* "Toolbar menus have been completely modbile in every application I've used since who know's when. It's a common thing. Why is the command bar nailed where it is? Why can I use the "grabber" to squish or expand it, but I can't put it where I'd use it?"
Yeah, I kind of agree... people Should be allowed to change things if they want... they should be able to move the print, rss, etc buttons where they want on new lines and have the Tabs controls as the only thing not movable... but... *shrugs* I don't know why they did this.
Like I said, it doesn't make much sense, but the buttons seem to be in the most logical place anyway.
I don't think applications will be coming out with movable toolbars as much anymore. Again Office 2007 would be a good example of that.
I believe you can undock panels on the Ribbon, but you can't rearrange, etc.
* "The button issue that I have is that a button should behave like a button. *Most* people expect some action to happen when they push a button, or they expect the button to stay depressed; toggling some feature. As an example, the "Add to Favorites" button: I expect it to add the current page to my favorites list when I click on it. It doesn't do that. Several of the buttons in IE7 do not behave that way. And, what's worse is that even their " "non-standard" behavior is not the same. Some of them drop down menus, while others open panels. This kind of inconsistent behavior is very confusing to most people. I am one of those people."
I believe that the favorites and the add to favorites are the only ones that don't really... the
# mabster
13/10/2006 8:33 AM
Regarding Customization:
It's a fact that the more you allow a program to be customizable, the less easy it is to support such an application.
Imagine being in tech support and getting a call from someone asking how to print a web page. In IE7 you can point them at the toolbar at the top-right of the window. In previous versions of IE, you could never guess where the user might have decided to put that print button.
Even in IE7 you can still add or remove buttons from that top-right toolbar, but the fact that most of the 'common' tasks are in fixed positions is a godsend for support staff.